Saturday, October 26, 2024

Problems in Sharing with the Unprepared

Yesterday, a new reader of the blog posed a question.  My reply was too long, and as I looked it over, I thought it would work for an article so I decided to post it here.  While I understand that most readers here are not of the same faith, I believe some assume their preps may be shared to some extent whether due to Christ-like charity or government compulsion.  Regardless of the reason, problems with large-scale sharing and distribution of supplies will arise and resolutions should be contemplated in advance.

Like me, Melanie is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  Here is her question:

Hello! I’m new to your blog and am enjoying it very much! I read your Sunday post with interest—who are we truly responsible for? I tried to comment then but for whatever reason couldn’t. Anyway, I’m of the same faith as you and it’s my opinion that we’ll be asked to literally “bring our tithes and offerings to the storehouse”. In other words, when the shtf we’ll need to give our preps to the bishop and live the law of consecration. Am I wrong? I just always thought that’s what will happen. It will relieve us of having to decide whom to help. But it will also be difficult seeing the grasshoppers eating us ants preps. If that’s how it works—who knows? What are your thoughts?

The idea that we'll just take everything to the local building for the bishop to distribute is a common one among Latter-day Saints (LDS), especially the ones who have not thought things through.  I do not believe we will be asked to do this for several reasons, some of which are presented below.  (We may be invited to bring anything we would like to donate, but I don't think it will go further than that.)

First, there is no historical precedent for it (that I am aware of) within the Church.  Even when many LDS were facing starvation in the late 1850s due to the loss of the wheat crops to the Mormon crickets, those with food were not asked (even though some members told Brigham Young to do this) to take their supplies to the storehouses.  Brigham Young wisely noted that to do so would take the decision of sharing away from those who had food and also result in those receiving food being less grateful because the food wasn't coming from a person, but from a faceless entity.  Something along those lines.  Like the welfare entitlement mentality we have today.

Then can you imagine what a nightmare that would be for a bishop or Relief Society president to administer? 

·       "I'm gluten-intolerant." 

·       "My child is allergic to peanuts/eggs/nuts/etc."

·       "I don't like red wheat.  I only want white wheat." 

·       "This food is out-of-date." 

·       "I don't know how to cook with wheat/powdered milk/beans.  I need just-add-water foods." 

·       Not to mention having to tell overweight people that they are going to have to be happy with far fewer calories. 

What about those who require special diets?  My husband is a type-1 diabetic.  Insulin-dependent diabetics can make the insulin last longer if they have a diet higher in animal protein and fat and much lower in carbohydrates.  (Beans are high in protein but also high in carbohydrates and thus not an ideal substitute for meat for diabetics.)  Do those people who prepared meats in abundance have to sacrifice their supplies?  Do those who carefully prepared their food to address life-threatening peanut (or other) allergies bring all their food down to share, only to be given back something that might kill their child?  What about those that simply need a low-salt diet?

And what about home-canned goods?  What if those canning the foods didn't follow guidelines?  It happens all the time.  I believe it was the USDA that conducted a survey a few years back and found that over 50% of home canners engaged in practices they deemed unsafe.  So would home-canned goods be included?  What about food preserved in other ways deemed unsafe by the government?

Then there is all the food that isn't stored well--like in hot garages, or exposed to light, or (gasp!) without oxygen absorbers.  Do those who carefully stored their food to keep it tasty and nutritious get 55-year-old milk stored in a hot garage back?  Or flour infested with weevils?  (Weevils are harmless, but there is the ick factor to consider.)  How will we know whether food is still edible until after we get home and open it up?  What if the oil is totally rancid?

And Boyd K. Packer said in April 1978,

We have been taught to store a year’s supply of food, clothing, and, if possible, fuel—at home. There has been no attempt to set up storerooms in every chapel. We know that in the crunch our members may not be able to get to the chapel for supplies.

(I highly recommend reading the whole talk.  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1978/04/solving-emotional-problems-in-the-lords-own-way?lang=eng)

What happens if martial law is declared or if gas is $20/gallon?  That may not be a problem in urban Utah areas, but many of us are a long way from our buildings.  And what if communication channels are down? 

So for all those reasons, I believe that the LDS will not be asked to take food to the church buildings for distribution.  Of course, that does not preclude sharing on a one-on-one basis.  But even then Brigham Young stated that he would not simply give his food away--people would need to work for it. 

At that point in time, it will be a full day of hard labor for a meal or two.  As Ezra Taft Benson said,

“Too often we bask in our comfortable complacency and rationalize that the ravages of war, economic disaster, famine, and earthquake cannot happen here. Those who believe this are either not acquainted with the revelations of the Lord, or they do not believe them. Those who smugly think these calamities will not happen, that they somehow will be set aside because of the righteousness of the Saints, are deceived and will rue the day they harbored such a delusion.

The Lord has warned and forewarned us against a day of great tribulation and given us counsel, through His servants, on how we can be prepared for these difficult times. Have we heeded His counsel?”  [Ensign, Nov. 1980, 34].

All people, regardless of their faith, need to prepare food and other necessities for their own families.  It is the way it has always been, from before Joseph in Egypt stored grain against the seven years of famine, to when Moses counseled the children of Israel to store food so they would not end up eating their children (they didn’t and then some did), to now when we can easily see famine and world war on the horizon and soon before our very eyes. 

 

22 comments:

  1. I'm not a member of the LDS so I can't speak on that.I can speak on historical precedent though.

    During both world wars, the US, Canada and the UK made 'hoarding' illegal. This included any supplies you had put down prior to the war. One man in the US suspected the war was coming and bought enough flour, sugar and other supplies to fill a spare bedroom.Once the rationing was announced he was turned in by the grocer who remembered his large order. I remember this story and make sure never to buy to much at one time in one place. If want to add 3 more bags of sugar, I spread out my purchases between multiple stores and if possible multiple communities paying cash for them as well.
    When rationing was announced in WW2 anyone who had more than a pound of sugar or flour on hand was required by law to inform the government who recorded the amount you had and then reduced your ration by the amount you had on hand. So since the sugar ration was 8oz a week and lets assume you had 5lbs in stock, that means you were barred from buying sugar for 10 weeks. If you had more than a reasonable excess the government could and did confiscate it. Failure to report your stores was a crime with punishment including always confiscation and often jail and fines.

    To Melanie's question I suspect that it is more likely the government will demand you hand over or report your stores than anything else. Also given that it's part of the cultural landscape that all Mormons have years of food stored, I suspect that the government will use that as a way to quickly fill the public larder. They can't afford for the EBT crowd to run out of food or they will go insane and destroy everything. Safer for the elites driving this train off a cliff to order middle class people to hand it over than deal with the ferals in the cities.

    As recently as 2016 egypt arrested people for having "excess" sugar stocks in their homes.
    In 2020 Deputy PM Chrystia Freeland talked about using the government to liberate money that was being hoarded by Canadians, now she was talking about how the government could better use the money people had in their savings than they could but she has given a few comments about 'hoarding' as well. I have no doubt she has plans to confiscate food this fall when there are shortages.

    Exile1981

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    1. Totally agree on the always pay cash and never use store rewards cards.

      While the general public on average has about three days of food on hand, the LDS on average have only two weeks of food. As a whole, they have not taken counsel from their leaders or followed examples of their grandparents. The number with at least a year's supply of food on hand is less than 5%. It won't fill the public larder. On top of that, the majority of food found among those who do store food is wheat, beans, and powdered milk. And a lot of it is very old. (I recently wrote about testing 55-year-old powdered milk that had been stored in Nevada desert garages and barns.) The public will have no idea what to do with it.

      At the outbreak of one of the world wars, one wise man had his wife can all their sugar as syrup. Home canned goods were exempt then. That precedent may hold again.

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    2. "One man in the US suspected the war was coming and bought enough flour, sugar and other supplies to fill a spare bedroom.Once the rationing was announced he was turned in by the grocer who remembered his large order." Okay, but you have no evidence that anyone in the US with a full larder had it seized after rationing started, correct?

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    3. Actually there are newspaper articles of seizures from the time. Most are very large stashes like the man above and I suspect done to discourage others. For the most part they just reduced your allowable purchases if you had a small amount.

      Exile1981

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    4. Sorry, but saying that there are newspaper articles of seizures at the time is not "evidence." Okay, technically that may qualify as evidence. I should have said "convincing evidence." Please provide the citations.

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    5. Survivormann99, See this article. https://prepschooldaily.blogspot.com/2020/07/more-food-storage-and-learning-from_19.html I'm sorry, I couldn't paste the article itself in here. For the record, I would consider a contemporary newspaper article on the subject does suggest that confiscation did occur, or would, since it was authorized by the government.

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  2. Let's get realistic. None of us have perfect OPSEC.

    I have a little fear of the FED's going pantry shopping.

    I have a MUCH HIGHER fear that the Media Propaganda will turn neighbors against neighbors.

    Historically that's how tyrants do their thing. Get neighbors to "See something, SAY Something" and often offer them a reward for turning in Hoarders. Worked for the East German police, soviet police and even during the Ukrainian Holodomor people turned in each other in the often-vain hope they would be spared.

    What to do? Have a working pantry AND have a barely hidden pantry. If they are too casual, then you keep the barely hidden pantry. DO Expect a second visit, speaking historically. If not, then I hope you had the really well-hidden pantry and willingness to scream and cry a bit to make them think you're going to starve.

    Worked for some of my family during WW1 and WW2.

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  3. When ever I see a great sale on canned goods , flour , rice etc , I think God is telling me stock up . People just don't want to see what is coming.

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    1. Normalcy bias is strong and while most don't want to see what is coming, more are waking up each day.

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  4. I knew you were the right gal to ask—thank you! Your response is well-researched. I really appreciate all the time put into this. My peeps are geared toward my daughter who has a severe peanut and tree nut allergy. I’ve worried about what might happen to her if we had to pool our resources with others. And I’m with you on the home canning. I’m happy to know another safe canner who follows the rules for safety! I have faith we can face these uncertain times with confidence as we prepare ourselves physically and spiritually. Thanks again!
    —Melanie

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    1. “Preps” not “peeps” lol

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    2. These life-threatening allergies--which are becoming increasingly more common--are a major reason why I am convinced there will be no pooling of resources within the Church. Donations, yes. But I feel bad for those who have allergies themselves or family members with them who choose not to prepare. I know nothing from my kitchen will be safe for them, even if I were to share.

      And I totally agree that with faith--and works--we will face the coming challenges with confidence that all will be well.

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  5. Many years ago we were friends with a couple from Hungary working for 2 years here in the US. The man told us about his grandmother who almost starved in ww1. When she grew up she stored a room full of food in a spare bedroom in her home. Everyone in the family laughed at her. Then came ww2. I don’t know how many people she helped, but it did make the war time somewhat easier. That story made quite an impression on me. I have no way of knowing how bad it might get, but there are certainly storm clouds on the horizon.

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  6. spanish nan 2 doors who is bi polar , says if they run out of food he will break into my house and steal I said i would shoot him dead

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    1. "Forewarned is well-armed," correct?

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  7. In God we trust and yes he takes cash!

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  8. I have to say this was one of my favorite articles, just because of how much info has been shared.

    Shortly after this originally was posted i was reading an article about a Canadian family that canned down 200lbs of sugar dissolved in water as syrup. The rules said that home canned goods were exempt from reporting or confiscation. By turning sugar into syrup they didn't get it confiscated and they didn't get their allotment reduced. Something to consider

    Smells, i have a bbq when I use it my neighbour 200 yards away often texts me to ask whats for supper. Consider how smells travel and what that will tell hungry and violent people in your area about what you have.

    A story out of bosnia mentioned after a few months it was easy to pick out the people who had food stores as they had not lost as much weight as everyone else. May not be a bad idea to have some oversized clothing to hide your reduced loss compared to those unprepared.

    Exile1981

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    1. About the barbecue issue with your neighbor, that's why you have wisely stored propane in abundance so that you can cook inside, amirite?

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    2. Oh, yeah. And I don't mean cook inside on a barbecue. Only the mentally challenged and fresh arrivals on our shore would do that. (This does periodically make the news.)

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    3. Actually chaffing dishes with fuel is a great way to cook stored foods indoors. No not using propane indoors, but they make indoor butane stoves, that i have concerns with.

      Exile1981

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  9. Having thought this out, I turn to the parable of the 10 virgins and their lamps. Those who had oil for their lamps didn't give it all away to those who ran out. I do believe in giving anonymously to the food bank. There is an idea of what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine. I like to avoid problems when I can.

    Take care to look and act like the masses. When possible stay home and away from people, too. Diseases we have long since thought of as eradicated might just reappear. Not to mention issues with sanitation. Also, we are not used to eating and drinking unsafe/unsanitary foods and, therefore, might get ill. Most of us are a bit too clean (there I said it out loud!).

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